Legislature(2009 - 2010)HOUSE FINANCE 519

04/08/2009 03:30 PM House ECON. DEV., TRADE & TOURISM


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03:34:03 PM Start
03:34:38 PM Presentation(s): Porter Bennett, Bentek Energy, "technologies for Shale Gas Development in the U.s."; Presentation by Dr. Mark Myers, Agia, Alaska's Natural Gas, Needed or Not?
05:27:35 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
-- Location Change from Rm 106 --
-- Please Note Time Change --
Joint w/ House & Senate RES & Senate WTI
+ Presentation by Porter Bennett, CEO & TELECONFERENCED
President of BENTEK Energy LLC:
"Technologies for Shale Gas Development
in the U.S."
                       ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                               
                             JOINT MEETING                                                                                    
           HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT,                                                                   
                             INTERNATIONAL                                                                                    
                           TRADE AND TOURISM                                                                                  
                  HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                          
                  SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                         
                             April 8, 2009                                                                                      
                               3:34 p.m.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                              
HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, INTERNATIONAL                                                                  
TRADE AND TOURISM                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Jay Ramras, Chair                                                                                                
Representative Mike Chenault                                                                                                    
Representative Mark Neuman                                                                                                      
Representative Mike Doogan                                                                                                      
Representative Chris Tuck                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Mark Neuman                                                                                                            
Co-Chair Craig Johnson                                                                                                          
Representative Scott Kawasaki                                                                                                   
Representative Chris Tuck                                                                                                       
Representative Peggy Wilson                                                                                                     
Representative Paul Seaton                                                                                                      
Representative Bryce Edgmon                                                                                                     
Representative David Guttenberg                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Bill Wielechowski                                                                                                      
Co-Chair Lesil McGuire                                                                                                          
Senator Hollis French                                                                                                           
Senator Bert Stedman                                                                                                            
Senator Gary Stevens                                                                                                            
Senator Charlie Huggins                                                                                                         
Senator Thomas Wagoner                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, INTERNATIONAL                                                                  
TRADE AND TOURISM                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Nancy Dahlstrom                                                                                                  
Representative Kyle Johansen                                                                                                    
Representative Reggie Joule                                                                                                     
Representative Lindsey Holmes                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kurt Olson                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                              
Senator Gene Therriault                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Presentation(s):  Porter Bennett, BENTEK Energy, "Technologies                                                                  
For Shale Gas Development in the U.S."; Dr. Mark Myers, AGIA,                                                                   
"Alaska's Natural Gas - Needed or Not?"                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                              
No previous action to report                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MARK MYERS, Ph.D., AGIA Coordinator                                                                                             
Office of the Commissioner                                                                                                      
Department of Natural Resources                                                                                                 
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Delivered a presentation on "Alaska's                                                                    
Natural Gas - Needed or Not?"                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
PORTER BENNETT, President and CEO                                                                                               
BENTEK Energy                                                                                                                   
Evergreen, CO                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT:  Delivered a presentation on "How Horizontal                                                              
Drilling $ Fracturing Technologies are Changing Natural Gas                                                                     
Markets."                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:34:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR MCGUIRE  called the joint  meeting of the  House Special                                                             
Committee  on  Economic   Development,  International  Trade  and                                                               
Tourism, the  House Resources Standing Committee,  and the Senate                                                               
Resources Standing  Committee to  order at  3:34 p.m.  Present at                                                               
the call  to order from  the House Special Committee  on Economic                                                               
Development,    International    Trade     and    Tourism    were                                                               
Representatives   Neuman,  Doogan,   and  Tuck.   Representatives                                                               
Chenault  and Ramras  arrived  as the  meeting  was in  progress.                                                               
Present at  the call to  order from the House  Resources Standing                                                               
Committee  were  Representatives  Tuck, Wilson,  Seaton,  Edgmon,                                                               
Guttenberg, Neuman, and  Johnson. Representative Kawasaki arrived                                                               
as the  meeting was  in progress.  Present at  the call  to order                                                               
from  the  Senate  Resources  Standing  Committee  were  Senators                                                               
French, Stedman, Stevens, Huggins,  Wagoner, and McGuire. Senator                                                               
Wielechowski  arrived as  the meeting  was in  progress. Also  in                                                               
attendance was Senator Therriault.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:34:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
^PRESENTATION(S):   PORTER BENNETT, BENTEK  ENERGY, "TECHNOLOGIES                                                             
FOR SHALE GAS DEVELOPMENT IN  THE U.S."; PRESENTATION BY DR. MARK                                                             
MYERS, AGIA, ALASKA'S NATURAL GAS, NEEDED OR NOT?                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:34:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR MCGUIRE announced that the  first order of business is a                                                               
presentation by Dr. Mark Myers.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MARK MYERS, Ph.D., AGIA Coordinator,  Office of the Commissioner,                                                               
Department   of  Natural   Resources,   delivered  a   PowerPoint                                                               
presentation titled "Alaska's  Natural Gas - Needed  or Not? What                                                               
about Shale Gas and Carbon Regulation?"                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Slide 1 stresses the importance  of the changing world demand for                                                               
energy  due  to   urbanization,  industrialization,  and  growing                                                               
population.  The  world  energy  picture is  one  of  growth  and                                                               
traditional  sources are  becoming  supply  limited. The  maximum                                                               
delivery time  for Alaska gas is  20-30 years and over  that long                                                               
term the demand  drive is intensive and growth  is massive. Slide                                                               
2  illustrates the  growth  in energy  demand  for the  different                                                               
supplies - coal, oil, gas,  nuclear, hydro, and other renewables.                                                               
Historically   increased   demand   has  been   accommodated   by                                                               
increasing  oil production.  He noted  that there's  also been  a                                                               
dramatic increase  in the production  of coal, a  subtle increase                                                               
in nuclear and a worldwide increase  in the use of natural gas. A                                                               
concern  for  the Alaska  project  is  that energy  demand  might                                                               
switch  to other  sources  including  renewables and  alternative                                                               
sources of  gas. Slide 3 illustrated  that now and in  the future                                                               
the  dominant  energy  source will  be  fossil  fuels.  Renewable                                                               
sources  simply cannot  grow  fast enough  to  offset the  demand                                                               
growth.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Slide 4  illustrates the shift  from oil to  the use of  coal and                                                               
nuclear  for electrical  generation in  the 30  year period  from                                                               
1974 to  2004. The use  of natural gas for  electrical generation                                                               
increased just slightly because  of limited supplies, but looking                                                               
forward it's clear  that massive supplies of  new, low CO  energy                                                               
                                                         2                                                                      
will be  needed. This pushes  the U.S.  toward a gas  economy and                                                               
argues   for  competition   for  an   overseas  LNG   market.  He                                                               
highlighted   that  much   of  the   demand  growth   that  could                                                               
theoretically  be  met  will  be  limited  by  the  environmental                                                               
consequences of all types of energy, renewable or not.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Slide  5  shows  that  all  new sources  of  energy  have  unique                                                               
environmental   challenges,  particularly   those  that   use  an                                                               
abundance  of  fresh  water.  For   example,  the  irrigation  of                                                               
agricultural corn to produce ethanol  is drawing down aquifers at                                                               
an  alarming  rate and  is  non-sustainable.  Oil shale  and  the                                                               
growth of  hydro have challenging  water issues and in  some ways                                                               
shale gas  will be limited by  water issues. To sustain  the life                                                               
of  a well  it may  be fraced  up to  10 times  and use  up to  4                                                               
million  gallons   of  water  per   frac.  Because   of  resource                                                               
limitations and  environmental constraints  past growth  can't be                                                               
assumed in the future.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:44:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. MYERS  displayed slide 6  highlighting the changes  since the                                                               
AGIA license was approved.                                                                                                      
·    The massive  global recession has  led to a decrease  in the                                                               
use of  energy. Natural gas use  in the U.S. has  been reduced by                                                               
about  1.3 percent  and  prices  out of  Henry  Hub have  dropped                                                               
dramatically.                                                                                                                   
·    There's been a rapid expansion  of shale gas supplies in the                                                               
U.S.                                                                                                                            
·    The  new  administration's  policy  shift  will  potentially                                                               
limit  OCS and  other  access  for oil  and  gas exploration  and                                                               
development.                                                                                                                    
·    The first international Arctic oil  and gas assessment shows                                                               
Arctic Alaska leading with respect to gas and oil.                                                                              
·    There's increased likelihood of carbon regulation.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WAGONER asked if the  same gas-rich geologic structure in                                                               
the Arctic extends to the Outer Continental Shelf.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:46:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MYERS  replied the  underlying  geologic  source rocks  that                                                               
generate oil and  gas onshore continue out into  the Beauford and                                                               
Chukchi seas. Alaska  is probably the most  prolific generator of                                                               
hydrocarbons in  North America in  terms of the number  of source                                                               
rocks, the richness of those  source rocks and the great geologic                                                               
structures  both on  and offshore.  Alaska also  has a  promising                                                               
continental margin  that has a  huge sedimentary cover  and great                                                               
structures. For example,  the Berger structure had 14  Tcf of gas                                                               
in  the  Chukchi  Sea.  The  offshore  potential  is  large.  The                                                               
production of  associated gas  prolongs the  life of  an oilfield                                                               
and if production  costs are shared between gas and  oil it makes                                                               
the  gas  cheaper  to produce.  The  existing  infrastructure  in                                                               
Prudhoe  Bay  and  the  potential  of  Point  Thomson  help  make                                                               
Alaska's gas  very competitive at  low prices. The  ultimate cost                                                               
of  gas production  comes from  the transportation  and operating                                                               
costs additional to the field costs that are relatively minor.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. MYER  displayed slide 7 showing  that the number of  gas rigs                                                               
in use dropped 45 percent in  the last year. Unless some of those                                                               
are picked  up in  the near  future, there will  be a  decline in                                                               
production in the next two or three years.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MYER said  slide 8  outlines Jim  Mulva's, viewpoint  that a                                                               
long-term view  is needed as the  driver for a pipeline.  Look at                                                               
long term  demand and the long  term price of getting  the gas to                                                               
market  - the  competitiveness of  the project  given alternative                                                               
sources.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
The line  graphs on slide  9 reflect  the EIA's most  recent 2009                                                               
forecast  and illustrate  that both  Lower 48  unconventional and                                                               
Alaska North  Slope gas  will be  needed in  the future.  He said                                                               
it's important  to realize  that new  gas supplies  often replace                                                               
existing  conventional  supplies that  are  in  rapid decline  so                                                               
there's a balancing  effect. The forecast for Alaska  gas is that                                                               
it will  be a  significant player. The  second line  graph showed                                                               
historical and projected natural  gas production for 1990-2030 in                                                               
five  cases  -  slow  technology,  low  price,  reference,  rapid                                                               
technology, and high  price. The models show  a dramatic increase                                                               
in demand for  gas in 2018, which is very  good timing for Alaska                                                               
gas.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:51:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WIELECHOWSKI  recognized that Representative  Ramras had                                                               
joined  the   committee  and  Commissioner  Galvin   was  in  the                                                               
audience.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:52:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. MYERS  displayed slide 10  looking at the 2009  EIA forecasts                                                               
of  prices and  said that  none of  the published  forecasts he's                                                               
seen indicate  that the  flood of  new gas  into the  market will                                                               
lower  prices  in  the  long  term.  In  the  short  term  prices                                                               
absolutely  will be  affected. Lower  48 wellhead  and Henry  Hub                                                               
Spot market  prices out  to 2030  are all  well above  the needed                                                               
return  to  make an  Alaska  gas  pipeline profitable.  Slide  11                                                               
clarified  that  this  is  well  within  the  range  of  expected                                                               
outcomes that were modeled in the AGIA findings.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
The chart on  slide 12 illustrates that shale  gas provides about                                                               
five percent of domestic production.  In 2007 about 47 percent of                                                               
domestic production  came from nonconventional gas.  He explained                                                               
that conventional  resources in  the Lower 48  - except  for deep                                                               
water offshore,  Alaska and potentially  Atlantic and  West Coast                                                               
margins -  have been heavily  explored and are in  rapid decline.                                                               
This  has  caused  a  shift to  the  unconventional  resources  -                                                               
coalbed methane, tight gas sands,  deep basin centered sands, and                                                               
now shale gas. They are typically more expensive to produce.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Slide 13 depicts Wyoming gas  reserves and the production history                                                               
from  1977  to  2006.  Conventional  gas  resources  became  more                                                               
difficult   to   produce,    accumulations   were   smaller   and                                                               
nonconventional  gas increased.  The  same thing  will happen  in                                                               
Alaska but conventional  resources will come first,  which is why                                                               
Alaska gas has such great economics.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Slide 14  shows shale gas plays  in the Lower 48.  Some shale gas                                                               
has to  be de-watered  and sometimes  water has  to be  added for                                                               
fracturing.  There's  a  wide variety  of  heterogeneity  to  the                                                               
reservoirs and  they have  a wide variety  of economic  costs and                                                               
development strategies depending on  the geochemistry, quality of                                                               
the  shale, the  source rock,  whether it's  naturally fractured,                                                               
ductile  or brittle,  the depth  and  ease of  extraction due  to                                                               
surface   conditions,  access,   water  availability,   land  use                                                               
policies, royalty  rates and environmental policies  of the local                                                               
district. Overall there is wide  variation on the cost structure;                                                               
the equation is not simple.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:55:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MYERS displayed  slide 15  showing the  estimated break-even                                                               
costs for Lower 48 shale gas  and Alaska North Slope onshore gas.                                                               
USGS modeled new field development  and estimated breakeven costs                                                               
at about  $3 at the AECO  Hub. For the Foothills,  USGS generally                                                               
used  breakeven numbers  of about  $4.25. Bank  of America  NYMEX                                                               
numbers showed Alaska  gas either under or at the  low end of the                                                               
best Lower  48 shale gas. Low  grade was $4.20, medium  was $6.64                                                               
and the highest was $11.50.  Lower drilling and steel costs today                                                               
coupled  with technology  improvements enhance  the economics  of                                                               
both. The  balance is that  development costs go up  for everyone                                                               
when fuel  prices are high and  go down for everyone  when prices                                                               
are low.  It would  be a  good deal if  steel could  be purchased                                                               
cheaply in  the next few  years because  the base gas  in Prudhoe                                                               
Bay is currently being cycled.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:57:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WIELECHOWSKI  welcomed Speaker Chenault to  the meeting.                                                               
He  then asked  if  the $3  figure for  onshore  North Slope  gas                                                               
reflects  $2.76  for  the  tariff   and  $0.20  for  capital  and                                                               
operating costs.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MYERS agreed  that operating  and capital  costs are  small.                                                               
$2.67 includes  treatment plant  costs and $4.25  is the  cost of                                                               
developing  a   new  field,  feeder  pipelines,   and  associated                                                               
operational  costs in  the  Foothills  onshore. Offshore  numbers                                                               
would be a bit higher.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WIELECHOWSKI asked  if $4.25 is for a  totally new field                                                               
outside of Prudhoe/Kuparuk.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MYERS  said yes,  on  state  lands  onshore. He  offered  to                                                               
provide the numbers that USGS used.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:58:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. MYERS said  Arctic Alaska is one of the  two areas of highest                                                               
potential for  gas according  to the  most recent  assessment. In                                                               
fact, Alaska's  gas resources represent  about 36 percent  of the                                                               
national   total   for  undiscovered,   conventional   estimates.                                                               
Compared  relative  to  continuous or  nonconventional  gas,  the                                                               
December 2008 USGS numbers indicate  about 364 Tcf of technically                                                               
recoverable gas  - including  coalbed methane.  The price  of gas                                                               
would  need to  be  between  $11 and  $12  coupled  with lack  of                                                               
environmental restrictions  on access  to the resource.  Slide 19                                                               
showed  the  mean  continuous  gas  resources  excluding  coalbed                                                               
methane to be about 275 Tcf.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The   chart  on   slide  21   depicts  USGS/MMS   assessments  of                                                               
undiscovered, conventional natural gas  in Arctic Alaska that are                                                               
roughly at parity  to Lower 48 gas resources. The  graph on slide                                                               
22  showed   33  Tcf  of  undiscovered   technically  recoverable                                                               
nonassociated  gas  in the  central  North  Slope. Various  price                                                               
scenarios show that  much of the gas is recoverable  in the $4-$6                                                               
range.  It takes  about  $4  gas to  start  recovering new  field                                                               
development away from infrastructure  on the central North Slope.                                                               
This is consistent  with the $4.25 figure.  Fields cost different                                                               
amounts  depending on  location, the  quality of  gas, number  of                                                               
wells  drilled,  whether they  are  horizontal  or vertical,  and                                                               
what's in the  gas. This is a relatively  good comparison between                                                               
the  two resources.  The EIA  price forecast  similarly indicates                                                               
that much of Alaska's gas is commercial.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MYERS reviewed  slide  24 and  described  the Arctic  Alaska                                                               
province  as immature;  just a  handful  of gas  wells have  been                                                               
drilled for exploration.  In comparison, the density  of wells in                                                               
Wyoming is 80  times that of Alaska. The assumption  is that much                                                               
more  gas will  be  found as  more wells  are  drilled. Slide  25                                                               
indicated  about  100  Tcf  of  technically  recoverable  coalbed                                                               
methane  and natural  gas  hydrates. In  neither  Alaska nor  the                                                               
Lower 48  has the over-pressured  basin-centered gas -  the tight                                                               
gas  sands -  been assessed.  It is,  however, potentially  huge.                                                               
Slide  26  reflects  Alaska  North   Slope  natural  gas  hydrate                                                               
assessment results for nonconventional gas.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MYERS displayed  slide 27  to  highlight what  happens in  a                                                               
carbon  constrained environment.  The  IPCC (International  Panel                                                               
and Climate  Change) and the  national CCSP (U.S.  Climate Change                                                               
Science Program)  assessments say that if  carbon isn't mitigated                                                               
now there will  be an increase in global temperatures.  It is the                                                               
consensus of  the scientific community  that if  greenhouse gases                                                               
increase there  is a  natural increase  in temperature.  To limit                                                               
that,  manmade CO   has  to be  mitigated.  If  Congress and  the                                                               
                 2                                                                                                              
administration choose  to do that,  it will change  fuel strategy                                                               
dramatically toward natural gas. Slide  28 reflected a 14 Bcf/day                                                               
increase in demand  in a carbon managed growth  case. More recent                                                           
analysis show up  to 20 Bcf/day, but the EIA  forecast has yet to                                                               
take that into account.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:02:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WIELECHOWSKI asked what he  assumes would be taxed under                                                               
cap-and-trade.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. MYERS replied  this model reflects a tax of  about $35/ton of                                                               
carbon for all sources.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WIELECHOWSKI asked how  natural gas emissions compare to                                                               
other sources.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. MYERS replied natural gas  emits about one-third what a coal-                                                               
fired power plant produces and  capital costs are about one-third                                                               
as  well.  To  get  to  the growth  that's  modeled  in  all  the                                                               
scenarios lots  more gas  is necessary  and the  price has  to be                                                               
higher.  EIS estimates  that  the price  to  consumers will  drop                                                               
about $0.63/Mcf off  the Henry Hub Spot in  2018-2019 when Alaska                                                               
gas comes  to market. Over  time the market will  recalibrate and                                                               
the  price will  increase, which  will be  good for  Alaska's gas                                                               
prospects.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
The latest  EIA model  indicates that natural  gas from  LNG will                                                               
increase until about 2018 after  which it will decrease. Canadian                                                               
production  will continue  to decline  because  of overall  basin                                                               
depletion,   but   the   predicted   increase   in   LNG   hasn't                                                               
materialized.  One reason  for that  is that  other areas  of the                                                               
world value LNG more; the U.S. has alternative gas sources.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. MYERS  displayed slide  32 showing that  the most  recent EIA                                                               
forecast  is higher  than the  2004 and  2006 forecasts  used for                                                               
AGIA.  The  price estimations  are  more  bullish even  with  the                                                               
increase  in supply.  He recapped  the reasons  include worldwide                                                               
demand,   population  demand,   national   demand,  decrease   of                                                               
conventional   supplies  and   development   of  more   expensive                                                               
alternatives. This puts Alaska in a good position.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Slide 33 depicts  Atigun Gorge along the  gasline route including                                                               
the  Lisbon  formation.  This  is  a  high  potential  target  in                                                               
limestones  and  is similar  to  what  is  seen  in much  of  the                                                               
Canadian Overthrust Belt.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:07:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  WIELECHOWSKI   referenced  slide  32  and   noted  that                                                               
TransCanada  yesterday  said the  new  forecast  adds about  $125                                                               
billion  in value  to  governments and  producers.  He asked  Mr.                                                               
Myers if that's his understanding                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. MYERS  said yes; once  the infrastructure is  constructed the                                                               
tariff will remain fairly constant  over the life of the pipeline                                                               
so the cost  will come from the variation in  the cost to develop                                                               
those resources.  For example,  if gas is  coming out  of Prudhoe                                                               
Bay,  the operating  and  capital  costs stay  the  same and  the                                                               
pipeline tariff  is pretty  much the  same. Conversely,  when the                                                               
price  goes  down  you  lose  significantly.  That  is  why  it's                                                               
important to understand  the "break-even" formula -  what the net                                                               
present value of  10-15 percent gives you. The  AGIA numbers said                                                               
net present value of 10  percent, not break-even. The TransCanada                                                               
numbers were probably also net present value of 10 percent.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WIELECHOWSKI thanked Mr. Myers for the presentation.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOHNSON introduced Mr. Bennett  and clarified that he is                                                               
not  being  paid  by  the  state. He  highlighted  that  the  gas                                                               
presentation he delivered in Washington  D.C. was simple and easy                                                               
to understand for the lay person.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:09:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PORTER BENNETT,  President and  CEO, BENTEK  Energy LLC,  said he                                                               
would cover five key points.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
·    The energy  world has changed  radically over that  last two                                                               
years. Technology  has changed the  way natural gas  is developed                                                               
and produced, which is profoundly impacting the market.                                                                         
·    Natural  gas  should no  longer  be  viewed as  unavailable,                                                               
unreliable or too expensive.                                                                                                    
·    Due to  unconventional gas production,  the U.S.  has become                                                               
supply-long. Prices are falling and consumers will benefit.                                                                     
·    The  burgeoning  supplies   are  overwhelming  the  nation's                                                               
pipeline capacity. The  impact of constraints is  to drive prices                                                               
lower by stimulating gas-on-gas competition.                                                                                    
·    The production  growth creates a  unique opportunity  to use                                                               
gas and reduce carbon emissions.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. BENNETT displayed slide 5  showing that the production of gas                                                               
began to  increase rapidly  beginning in the  summer of  2007. In                                                               
2005 and 2006 it  grew about 1.5 percent to 2  percent a year and                                                               
in  2008 it  grew  nearly  7 percent.  At  the  same time  demand                                                               
increased  between  1 percent  and  2  percent depending  on  the                                                               
source. Slide  6 demonstrated  that in  2008 Lower  48 production                                                               
was at  near historic levels.  Had the recession not  hit, levels                                                               
would likely have been higher.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:14:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BENNETT  displayed  slide  7  showing  that  gas  production                                                               
increased everywhere  but in  the Gulf of  Mexico and  Gulf Coast                                                               
basins and  the Paradox and  San Juan  basins. He noted  that the                                                               
Gulf decreased  about 600 Mcf/day.  If it weren't for  the impact                                                               
of the hurricanes, he estimated  that the decline would have been                                                               
closer to 100 Mcf/day. Production in  the Rockies grew by about 1                                                               
Bcf/day  largely due  to  tight sands  and  coalbed methane.  The                                                               
South East  Supply area,  comprised of  the Arkoma,  Arcola, East                                                               
Texas and Fort Worth basins, grew  more than 3 bcf/day last year,                                                               
primarily from  shale. Production  in the Appalachian  Basin grew                                                               
by  200 Mcf/day  last  year  and the  year  before. That's  where                                                               
Marcellus is located  and future grow is  expected. Production in                                                               
the   Anadarko   and   Permian  basins,   which   are   primarily                                                               
conventional, also grew some last year.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. BENNETT highlighted  that the market share  has changed quite                                                               
radically  over the  last  20  years. In  the  1980s the  Rockies                                                               
produced about 3 percent of the  gas consumed in the U.S. and now                                                               
it's about 20  percent. The South East supply  area only produced                                                               
about 9  percent of the gas  produced in the country  in 2000 and                                                               
now it produces  25 percent. Appalachia production  was less than                                                               
1 percent in 1980 and is now about 4 percent.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BENNETT displayed  slide 8  demonstrating that  the type  of                                                               
drilling reflects the shift to  unconventional gas production. He                                                               
noted that  the horizontal  drilling is  primarily shale  gas and                                                               
although it's  been used since  1990, it's  only in the  last 2-3                                                               
years that it's  started to take over. Directional  drilling is a                                                               
tight sands approach that allows  multiple wells on a single pad.                                                               
This  new technology  uses  fracing, which  produces  gas from  a                                                               
considerably larger area. The fracs are  a mix of sand, water and                                                               
ceramic beads  that are  forced in under  high pressure  to break                                                               
the  dense shale  and allow  the gas  to flow  to the  well stem.                                                               
Today some  wells are fraced 10  or 12 before they're  brought on                                                               
thereby  bringing a  tremendous amount  of gas  into the  system.                                                               
This has made  a tremendous difference in the  production of oil.                                                               
In 2007 an  average well generated about 900  Mcf/day after about                                                               
60  days of  production. This  year the  same area  was producing                                                               
more than twice that amount just because of fracing.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:20:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN asked if that  is why fewer wells will need                                                               
to be drilled for shale gas.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BENNETT replied no; this in  itself won't be a problem unless                                                               
there  is   some  environmental   regulation  on   fracing.  Such                                                               
regulation is being  proposed and is a significant  issue for the                                                               
industry.  Currently, the  states regulate  fracing but  there is                                                               
talk about bringing it under  EPA supervision, which would not be                                                               
good for either oil or gas production in the U.S.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BENNETT   displayed  slide   10,  a  chart   of  exploration                                                               
investment  by producers  totaling $1  trillion since  2003. That                                                               
investment has  been possible due  to price levels over  the past                                                               
six or  seven years and  as a result, gas  prices are on  the way                                                               
down. Slide 11 shows that the  Henry Hub price per MMBtu in March                                                               
2009 was in the $3.40 to $3.50 range.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:23:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BENNETT  explained  how  the  geography  of  production  has                                                               
changed. Slide 12  illustrates where production was  in 1980; the                                                               
size of each circle is a  function of the total production out of                                                               
the field.  Over half of U.S.  gas production in 1980  was in the                                                               
Gulf  area and  most of  the pipeline  structure was  designed to                                                               
move gas out  of that area and the  Anadarko/Permian to Northeast                                                               
and  Midwest  markets. By  1990  production  in the  Rockies  was                                                               
increasing,  but the  production  of Barnett  Shale  in the  Fort                                                               
Worth  Basin  was in  decline.  By  2000  there  was a  lot  more                                                               
production in the Rockies and still  some growth in the Gulf, but                                                               
the area along the coast of  Louisiana had started to decline and                                                               
Fort Worth was even smaller.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
By the  end of last year  the situation was very  different. Most                                                               
of the  gas is  now coming from  east Texas,  Northern Louisiana,                                                               
the   Rockies   and   the  emerging   Marcellus   production   in                                                               
Pennsylvania.  However the  pipeline  structure  has not  changed                                                               
very much and therein lie the capacity issues.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Slide  13 maps  2008 gas  prices minus  the Henry  Hub settlement                                                               
price  by location,  to reveal  how  pipeline constraints  create                                                               
price anomalies.  In Boston  or New York  for example,  the price                                                               
averaged  $1.23  more  than  the  price  at  Henry  Hub.  In  the                                                               
producing areas of the west, prices  were less than Henry hub. In                                                               
other words, the areas noted in  red had too much gas relative to                                                               
demand,  or were  "supply  long"  while the  areas  in blue  were                                                               
"supply  short".  The  market  tries  to  balance  those  out  by                                                               
building pipelines.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Slide 14 illustrates new pipeline  projects including the Rockies                                                               
Express (REX) which is coming on  line soon to bring low-cost gas                                                               
out  of the  Rockies to  the higher-priced  market. There  are 75                                                               
pipeline projects  going in the  Gulf, more  than 45 in  the east                                                               
and another 10 being considered in the Rockies.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:27:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BENNETT continued, slide 15 shows  the movement of gas out of                                                               
the Rockies; blue  indicates daily flow on the  pipelines and red                                                               
indicates capacity. There are three  major routes. On the Pacific                                                               
Northwest  route, capacity  utilization  rates have  been in  the                                                               
area of  90 percent  since 2005.  The Southwest  (Arizona, Nevada                                                               
and California)  is also  full both  directions. The  flows going                                                               
east out  of Cheyenne  were constrained  but began  to open  up a                                                               
little in 2007 when REX came on  line. It dipped a little in 2008                                                               
and  2009 due  to a  maintenance event  that caused  part of  the                                                               
pipeline to  be closed for  a time. He  noted that when  they get                                                               
cold weather in Colorado, that pipeline tends to open up.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WAGONER  asked about the  breakdown of gas coming  out of                                                               
the Rockies.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:29:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BENNETT said it is driven  by the Green River which is mostly                                                               
tight  sands. He  guessed  that it  is  approximately 75  percent                                                               
unconventional; a  lot of it is  coal bed methane. He  added that                                                               
the Powder  River and San Juan  are also coal bed  methane; Jonah                                                               
and Pinedale are  tight gas and Uinta and Piceance  are tight gas                                                               
with some  conventional. DJ [Denver-Julesburg  Basin] is  an oily                                                               
area; this is conventional but  has a lot of horizontal drilling.                                                               
It  is a  good example  of how  unconventional technologies  have                                                               
been applied  successfully to a conventional  reservoir to extend                                                               
and expand its productive life.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Slide 17 shows capacity and flows  in the Rockies on an aggregate                                                               
basis. The blue  area represents the amount of  total supply that                                                               
can be exported and the gold  area the amount that is consumed or                                                               
stored in the  region. The red line is total  capacity out of the                                                               
Rockies  and  the green  line  is  price  measured at  Opal,  the                                                               
primary pricing point in the Green River.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BENNETT   pointed  out  that   the  green   line  fluctuates                                                               
dramatically.  That  fluctuation  is  due  to  maintenance  which                                                               
causes  a loss  in productive  capacity causing  the price  to go                                                               
down. During 2007  the average utilization rate  was 103 percent,                                                               
a period known as the "Rockies  Experience." On more than one day                                                               
that  summer, producers  in the  Rockies received  only $.05  for                                                               
their gas and on many others the  price was less than $.75.  When                                                               
that  happens, when  there are  more producer/sellers  than there                                                               
are consumers, they  bid the price down. There  are few long-term                                                               
contracts there, so  a constraint like this drives  the price way                                                               
down.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
When REX came  on, it alleviated the situation so  that last year                                                               
the  utilization  rate  was  97  percent  until  the  maintenance                                                               
problems caused closures.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:33:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WAGONER questioned what the  green line will look like in                                                               
six months and 12 months from that time.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BENNETT responded  that the  current price  at Henry  Hub is                                                               
$3.50 and the price at Opal  yesterday was $3.25; so it should be                                                               
about where it is now.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. BENNETT said  he expects the price to be  below $1.00 on many                                                               
days this summer because there is just too much gas.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Slide 20 displays  first year production from an  average well in                                                               
the Piceance.  The red  bar represents  first year  production at                                                               
about 500,000  per day,  but it  declines very  quickly. Drilling                                                               
the same  well the next  year results in an  incremental increase                                                               
of 244 Mcf/day  because the balance goes to  offset declines from                                                               
the first year's  well. So to answer  Senator Wagoner's question,                                                               
that  line  will  eventually  flatten  out  if  they  don't  keep                                                               
drilling more than one well.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The blue on  this graph represents a projection that  is based on                                                               
drilling  rate  as  of  the  end  of  January  according  to  the                                                               
announced  plans of  producers at  that  time. Since  the end  of                                                               
January 2009  they have  lost more rigs  in the  Rockies however,                                                               
and  when that  happens it  doesn't take  long for  production to                                                               
decline. Based  on the rigs  projected for this year,  they don't                                                               
expect to  produce enough gas  to need  the new pipeline  that is                                                               
being built. That  does not mean those projects  won't get built;                                                               
producers will  drill again  when the price  goes up,  leading to                                                               
new  capacity issues  next year.    This capacity  issue is  what                                                               
constrains the price of natural gas in the Lower 48.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Slide  21  indicates new  pipelines  that  are unneeded  at  this                                                               
point.  Slide 22 shows about  1.6 Bcf/day coming into Lebanon and                                                               
325 million  a day of unused  space going east from  Lebanon with                                                               
about 250  MMcf/day of local  demand. REX pipeline will  bring in                                                               
another  1.6  Bcf/day and,  because  1.6  B  won't fit  into  325                                                               
MMcf/day of space, the price will drop again.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
At the end of the year when  REX gets over to Eastern Ohio, there                                                               
will  be  plenty of  room  to  get  gas  into the  pipelines  but                                                               
Marcellus production is growing. It  all goes into storage fields                                                               
and on a  peak day in the winter  there is only half a  B of open                                                               
capacity  east of  those storage  fields.  That gas  is going  to                                                               
continue  to sit  in the  storage field  until the  pipelines are                                                               
expanded.  Unfortunately, there  are only  about 100  million per                                                               
day in expansions planned for development  by 2011.  That means a                                                               
whole lot of surplus gas in  the area, which means prices in Ohio                                                               
will drop dramatically.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. BENNETT  went on to discuss  production in the Gulf  as shown                                                               
on slides 23  and 24. There are 15 projects  bringing 7.3 Bcf/day                                                               
of gas  in and there is  6.4 Bcf/day of incremental  capacity (it                                                               
starts  full). Some  gas will  be  pushed back,  leaving about  5                                                               
Bcf/day  of gas  without  a home.   It  gets  worse, because  the                                                               
impact of  REX means that  some of the  gas flowing to  that area                                                               
will get  pushed back  and will  have to be  discounted 70  to 90                                                               
percent to make that equalize.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:41:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WAGONER asked  why a  producer would  want to  drill and                                                               
produce gas at a loss.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. BENNETT  explained that  is why they  are not  drilling right                                                               
now.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WAGONER   said,  going   back  to   the  chart   on  the                                                               
continuation of drilling  production, he would expect  to see the                                                               
decline occur very quickly.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BENNETT stressed  that  it is  important  to recognize  that                                                               
these  are long-haul  pipelines that  have to  be built,  with an                                                               
average cost of  $6 to $7 billion  and no one is  talking about a                                                               
solution.  The only  alternative  is to  increase  demand in  the                                                               
area. This is different from  the Rockies problem where there are                                                               
new pipelines  already planned.  He predicted  that with  the new                                                               
technologies available,  producers in  the Gulf  will be  able to                                                               
choke  off their  wells  so  they can  cut  back production  when                                                               
prices are down.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Slide 26 shows  drilling activity across the  country. He pointed                                                               
out that the  Permian and Anadarko have lost about  80 percent of                                                               
their  rigs   since  October   2008.  Haynesville   has  actually                                                               
increased but 14 others have lost rigs.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
On slide 27  the basins are color-coded to  indicate whether they                                                               
are  predominantly conventional  or  unconventional. The  circles                                                               
are sized  based on average  daily production over the  first two                                                               
years of the well and the  figures denote number of rigs inactive                                                               
since October  17, 2008.   Mr. Bennett  said the  Haynesville has                                                               
gained  eight rigs  because,  while their  wells  cost about  $10                                                               
million each,  they can produce so  much more out of  those wells                                                               
it makes  sense to  do so  even with  the price  environment that                                                               
exists.  Another reason  is that  all of  that is  "fee land"  on                                                               
which  most  of  the  private  three-year  leases  will  soon  be                                                               
expiring.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
He  clarified that  those rigs  aren't just  going down  they are                                                               
being moved around as the  technology changes. The new technology                                                               
is evolving quickly and creating  rigs that are increasingly more                                                               
productive; producers  are putting  their most efficient  rigs on                                                               
their most  productive properties  and learning  how to  use them                                                               
effectively. He  believes the magic  of production  technology is                                                               
going to  mean a lot of  gas will be available  at relatively low                                                               
prices in the near future.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:50:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BENNETT  said  that  drilling declines  are  going  to  curb                                                               
production which will  drive prices up a little  bit, but they're                                                               
not going to go up very  far before the increased production they                                                               
stimulate hits  the constraints and  starts to drive  prices back                                                               
down again.  Technology and production  will make it  possible to                                                               
recover  from these  cyclic changes  more rapidly,  so the  price                                                               
response  will  not  be  nearly   as  volatile  as  it  has  been                                                               
historically. But new  pipelines are critical in  order to expand                                                               
the industry,  to expand production  and demand; if  something is                                                               
not  done to  fix  the  pipelines and  increase  demand, it  will                                                               
become a real problem.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WAGONER asked  about projections  on the  replacement of                                                               
aging coal plants and compressed gas for vehicles.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:54:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MYERS  responded  that  about   50  percent  of  the  energy                                                               
generated in this country is from  coal and the demand for energy                                                               
keeps  growing.  Looking  at  a  five  or  ten  year  period  and                                                               
disregarding the  cyclic bumps,  demand for energy  is increasing                                                               
at  a fairly    predictable  and steady  rate  as the  population                                                               
grows.   Switching  to compressed  natural gas  or to  fuel cells                                                               
driven by natural gas will  create a dramatic increase in demand;                                                               
that is  more and more likely  as the price of  gas is de-coupled                                                               
from oil.   If people  move to  electric cars, the  country still                                                               
has to power  the electrical grid; so such  possible scenarios as                                                               
carbon constraint,  fuel-load switching  and gas to  liquids, can                                                               
be realized if  the ratio between gas and oil  stays high and gas                                                               
is abundant.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The  key is  maintaining an  available source  of supply  that is                                                               
relatively  abundant  and moderately  priced.  He  agrees that  a                                                               
price in  the $7 to  $9 range, depending on  what oil does,  is a                                                               
valuable sweet spot. Based on the  economics of Alaska gas, it is                                                               
also  extremely profitable  at those  numbers. He  believes there                                                               
will be  a dramatic increase in  need if the country  makes those                                                               
policy decisions and if oil  availability and oil demand overseas                                                               
is difficult.  The country is  decreasing domestic  production of                                                               
oil  generally. What  they do  in the  Beaufort and  Chukchi seas                                                               
matters, but we can't drill ourselves out of the lack of energy.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
As the  demand for oil  increases, competition will  force prices                                                               
up and  as oil prices go  high, he expects to  see fuel-switching                                                               
out  of   oil  as  there   was  for  electrical   generation  and                                                               
transportation  fuel. The  upside  potential is  that  if gas  is                                                               
available and prices stay in  that moderate range, it will become                                                               
practical to build new gas power plants.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:57:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BENNETT  said that, in  looking at gas consumption  for power                                                               
generation, it  is important  to break  it down  by type.  Gas is                                                               
used by "peakers," the  things that go up and down  a lot, and in                                                               
combined  cycles,  which  are  typically  shoulder  to  base-load                                                               
facilities running at 30 to  70 percent. Right now three quarters                                                               
of  the gas-fired  combined cycles,  the shoulder  technology, is                                                               
unused primarily  because of  the price over  the past  few years                                                               
relative to coal.   Now that gas prices are  down, coal is having                                                               
a  little  more  difficulty competing.  Unfortunately,  long-term                                                               
contracts underpin the coal market so  it isn't as easy to switch                                                               
away from  it as it is  gas, which is a  spot-market fuel. Longer                                                               
term, the  obvious way  to reduce carbon  emissions is  to reduce                                                               
the use of  coal immediately in favor of gas,  but it all depends                                                               
on where the  plants are located. If the plants  are in New York,                                                               
there is not sufficient capacity on winter days                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  WIELECHOWSKI   asked  Mr.   Meyers  if   Mr.  Bennett's                                                               
presentation  had  changed  his  opinion  at  all  regarding  the                                                               
viability of the Alaska gas pipeline.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR THERRIAULT joined the meeting.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:59:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. MYERS answered  that he did not see a  potential conflict but                                                               
would  like to  make a  few points.  Long-term demand  growth has                                                               
occurred despite  recession and alternative fuel  sources. If the                                                               
fuel  is available  and if  we  are environmentally  constrained,                                                               
there will be  even more growth. There is an  excess of supply in                                                               
the  current  recessionary  environment. Certainly  the  pipeline                                                               
infrastructure is racing to keep  up with localized deltas in the                                                               
Lower 48;  however Alaska gas  has some  fundamental differences.                                                               
The first gas produced is coming  out of gas that is being cycled                                                               
at 8.4 Bcf per  day. It is not a matter of  drilling new wells to                                                               
keep up; it is  how wide they turn the valve  open to produce the                                                               
gas.  So Alaska  is looking  at  conventional wells  that can  be                                                               
easily choked  back or  increased beyond  the design  capacity of                                                               
the pipeline.  The management techniques  and approach  are going                                                               
to  be different  in conventional  fields where  there isn't  the                                                               
rapid decline and continual need to frac.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Much of the  technology being used in the Lower  48 was developed                                                               
in Alaska.  For example, when  he was the discovery  geologist at                                                               
the Meltwater  field, they got  zero flow on the  first discovery                                                               
wells  prior  to   fracing;  they  got  4,000   barrels  per  day                                                               
afterward. Much of the  advanced fracture technology, horizontals                                                               
and multi-lateral  horizontals, are  the way  heavy oil  is being                                                               
developed on  the North Slope.  These are technologies  that have                                                               
evolved through  a transfer of  knowledge from Alaska to  the gas                                                               
fields  of  the Lower  48.  He  believes  the technology  is  not                                                               
revolutionary but  evolutionary and has limits  based on physics,                                                               
geology,  geochemistry,   depth  and  water-use  issues.   So  he                                                               
disagreed a bit with Mr. Bennett  on the rate at which technology                                                               
enhancement  lowers cost.  Conventional gas,  cost and  structure                                                               
will beat  it every time,  he asserted, if that  conventional gas                                                               
is available and if the pipeline tariffs are reasonable.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
5:03:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BENNETT  said he absolutely  disagrees with Mr.  Meyer's last                                                               
statement. He stated that the  empirical evidence, the Securities                                                               
Exchange filings and the producers  that are actually doing this,                                                               
show the  cost of  drilling in  shales is  dropping dramatically.                                                               
Producers he  met with yesterday  said their costs had  gone from                                                               
between $6 and $8 last summer to  less than $3. A lot of them are                                                               
looking at prices  in the range of $1.10 to  $1.20 in finding and                                                               
development costs;  lifting will  add about $1.   In  many cases,                                                               
their  conventional properties  are more  expensive now  than the                                                               
unconventional.   That is  why drilling  is off  so badly  at the                                                               
Permian and Anadarko; that is  a very expensive place to operate.                                                               
He does  not think it  is correct to  characterize unconventional                                                               
gas as being more expensive any more.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
He also said that the impact on  the market is the big issue and,                                                               
to him, it  isn't certain at all. When they  start building these                                                               
projects, they  need to watch how  the market is evolving  to see                                                               
what that means.    For example, people have  speculated that LNG                                                               
is going to  be the big thing; right now  two ships are scheduled                                                               
to come  into Cove  Point within  the next week  or so  that will                                                               
knock about  20 percent off  the price of  gas.  The  only reason                                                               
they are coming  is that there is no demand  anywhere else and we                                                               
have the only  available storage fields. The problem  is that the                                                               
producers who  can't make any money  now at a $3  price are going                                                               
to Europe or Africa or China  to figure out how to exploit shales                                                               
in  other parts  of the  world. It  is entirely  likely that  ten                                                               
years from  now gas will be  produced in places around  the world                                                               
that we  don't even know  have gas. It is  the same on  oil side;                                                               
the new technology has already  encouraged new development in the                                                               
U.S.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
5:07:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. MYERS said he would  agree compared to coalbed methane, tight                                                               
gas  sands  or shale  gas.  The  Alaska reservoirs  haven't  been                                                               
tapped and  according to the test  data the rates out  of Prudhoe                                                               
Bay and  Pt. Thomson will  far exceed  the best shale  gas areas.                                                               
The only exceptions might be  the deep subsalt exploration in the                                                               
Gulf  of Mexico  and places  where it  is very  expensive to  set                                                               
platforms.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON asked  if gas-to-liquids  conversion makes                                                               
sense here in Alaska.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
5:09:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. MYERS replied it is  important to start with an understanding                                                               
that   the  Alaska   project   connects   with  an   increasingly                                                               
underutilized  14  Bcf/day  natural gas  distribution  system  in                                                               
Alberta. Most  scenarios show  underuse of  the capacity  in that                                                               
system  because the  basin is  well past  its peak.  He made  the                                                               
point  that AGIA  is expandable  and  said he  believes that  the                                                               
producers designed  their system to  go into the liquid  hub with                                                               
lots of overbuilt capacity. Their highest  net back is to get the                                                               
gas to the first liquid market.  Another point is that Alaska gas                                                               
- at least out of Prudhoe Bay  - is extremely rich in gas liquids                                                               
and that has a lot of value in the petrochemical industry.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
5:13:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BENNETT  said anything that  can be  done to consume  the gas                                                               
here in Alaska seems very logical.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAMRAS  expressed skepticism about  the commercial                                                               
viability  of  Alaska gas  and  spending  $500 million  when  the                                                               
markets ultimately prevail. He then  asked Mr. Bennett to address                                                               
the tax policies that are  driving exploration and development in                                                               
the different regions.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. BENNETT  replied he isn't  aware of any  specific incentives,                                                               
but the proposed budget eliminates  intangible drilling costs and                                                               
reduces  the depletion  allowance. If  implemented that  would be                                                               
very detrimental to drilling activity in the Lower 48.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
5:16:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOHNSON asked  Mr. Bennett if he agrees  with Mr. Myers'                                                               
statement that  there's a  race to build  pipelines in  the Lower                                                               
48.                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. BENNETT  replied there  are lots  of projects  being proposed                                                               
but  they aren't  being built  right now.  Smaller projects  will                                                               
help relieve  the bottleneck  by 2012-2013  but building  a long-                                                               
haul pipeline will take a fundamental change in demand.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
5:18:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOHNSON  asked about  the  5  Bcf  of Alaska  gas  that                                                               
potentially will go into the Midwestern U.S.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BENNETT replied for that project  to make sense demand has to                                                               
increase by perhaps 6-8 Bcf/day. Perhaps  in 30 years, but in the                                                               
next 10  years it's dubious  that an  additional 5 Bcf  would fit                                                               
into the existing Lower 48 demand structure.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MYERS  added that  the  driver  is  the decline  in  western                                                               
Canadian production and  the push to increase use  of natural gas                                                               
for oil shales.  Alaska gas will help  supplement the traditional                                                               
demand that's  been met  from Canada.  Once the  gas gets  to the                                                               
underutilized  liquid hub  in Alberta  it will  flow to  the best                                                               
available market.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  WIELECHOWSKI  thanked Mr.  Myers  and  Mr. Bennett  for                                                               
their testimony and turned the gavel to Co-Chair Johnson.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
5:21:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOHNSON  observed that  during the pipeline  hearings in                                                               
Anchorage the  administration said  the gas  would go  to Chicago                                                               
and  not to  Alberta. He  questioned whether  there might  now be                                                               
opposition  from environmentalists  if the  gas went  to the  oil                                                               
sands.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MYERS  emphasized  that gas  molecules  aren't  branded  and                                                               
tracked. The  gas will flow  to the  first liquid hub  in Alberta                                                               
after which it will either go  to Chicago or offset gas that went                                                               
to the oil sands. North  Slope producers aren't forced to deliver                                                               
their gas to a particular market.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
5:23:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BENNETT stated agreement.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WAGONER  commented that there is  a lot of liquid  in the                                                               
gas and once it's removed there  will be a large reduction in the                                                               
cubic feet  of methane  put through to  Chicago. Responding  to a                                                               
question, he said it's not  established where the liquids will be                                                               
removed, but preferably it would  be in Alaska. He conceded that,                                                               
that may be hard to do.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DOOGAN  asked Mr.  Bennett  to  elaborate on  the                                                               
checklist  item, "state,  local and  federal government  policies                                                               
critical to realizing this fragile opportunity."                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
5:25:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BENNETT  said the  federal  energy  policy that's  currently                                                               
being  formulated  doesn't  just  ignore  natural  gas  it  works                                                               
against the production of incremental  gas because of what appear                                                               
to be  growing restrictions in  access to  lands and how  to deal                                                               
with fracing.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Colorado  provides  an  example  at  the state  level.  It  is  a                                                               
proponent of  wind energy, but  it's an expensive way  to produce                                                               
peaking power. Using  the combined cycle produces  less carbon to                                                               
begin with as  opposed to a single cycle turbine,  which you need                                                               
for  wind power.  As  a consequence,  part  of Colorado's  energy                                                               
policy is reducing the demand for gas.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOHNSON thanked  Mr. Myers  and Mr.  Bennett for  their                                                             
presentations.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
5:27:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business  before the committees, the joint                                                               
meeting of  the House Special Committee  on Economic Development,                                                               
International  Trade and  Tourism, the  House Resources  Standing                                                               
Committee, and  the Senate  Resources Standing  Committee meeting                                                               
was adjourned at 5:27 p.m.                                                                                                      

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